Before you vote, understand what Alberta separation actually requires legally, financially, and for every person whose life depends on what happens next.
Agree these issues will not go away what is concerning right now is that with all this talk about separation the media sure is not talking about the data breach which is a big issue
I've just sent the piece to an Albertan friend with the suggestion she get in touch with a reporter/editor at the major paper in Calgary and Edmonton - by phone, if possible - to say “I’m guessing you’ve probably been doing this research yourself, but in case you haven’t it needs a LOT of public exposure because I certainly didn’t know any of this, and I’m guessing most of us Albertans don’t know any of this either!”
She answered me - "Good idea!"
I have a hunch she's going to act on this in some way.
If any of you who have responded have friends/contacts in Alberta (don't leave out the rural communities) pass this piece on. Our comments don't amount to a hill of beans. I suggested reaching out to the newspapers, but the local Alberta radio talk shows, the local TV newsrooms should be interested enough to pick this up.
The important thing is to make this information go viral.
Yes they should be doing the work instead of letting random bloggers do it without process. They can also self published on a blog if editors kill or undermine them...
Let's see if anybody here does something about actually moving the information... I suppose you'd have no objection if portions of your piece were incorporated into letters to the editor, etc.
My problem is I'm in NS without contact / information about the local media scene in Alberta which is why I sent the piece along to my (clergy) friend in Alberta who does have contacts and a network she's working with.
Sorry to pursue this but your answer is ambiguous...
Did you miss a comma after "No" which would mean you do object to people quoting portions of your piece in something they might write themselves? (I'm assuming they'd offer a link back to your original - I do when I quote from a restacked piece). You could have meant "Not given,..." in other words people should chase down the links to build their own responses - most won't bother with that and your intention of getting a wide audience for this information gets lost. Or was your reply just a fast one, meaning: No, you're OK with quotes from the piece being used?
Crazy how a missing or misplaced comma, or missing letter can effect the meaning of a bit of text...
Well done, CR! People (Albertans) don't really want to think about any of this, they just want to be told a nice story of how things will be and then let happen what happens, assuming it will be like the fairy tales they were told; more freedom, more money, more blah blah blah. And when did stories like that told by politicians EVER come true?!!
Thank you CR for providing this information. An excellent well rounded discussion of what the nuts and bolts of the situation will or can evolve into and how we are all going to feel its effects. Although not exhaustive I believe you’ve hit all the major points. It’s important that people understand the implications of wanting to take a vote on the possibility of separating from the rest of Canada. What was clear in my mind having gone through two referendums that the issues are complicated, the entanglements overwhelming and most people (I include myself) can’t or won’t absorb the details. It’s either not in our DNA or we can’t handle all the information at once but it’s nonetheless vital that the hard questions be asked and real answers be provided. And it’s what the proponents of the separation challenge hope for. Too many ideas. Too many numbers. People will cling to sound bites and tag lines rather than diving into the details. So content such as this becomes vital and thought provoking. Let’s learn from history. What happened to Britain? Was Brexit a good idea after all? The problem today is that people don’t know who or what to trust. The uncertainty is unnerving so people avoid until the last minute. Nefarious actors complicate the agenda. Everyone is selling something and no one is sure of what they are getting. Norms and standards are being dissolved and people feel trapped within an information bubble that may not serve them well. So let’s not go down the path of not knowing the facts. Forget about partisanship. Think costs. Everyday implications as outlined here and get the facts. Dialogue is as important as understanding the issues and grievances. Final word is that First Nations Treaties are paramount in this conversation and cannot and must not be minimized in any way. Let’s keep talking to understand each other. What is clear from this reading is that Alberta is stronger within a united Canada and Canada is a greater nation with all its provinces and territories working together !!
Doubtful but sure anything is possible. Everything I’ve read or heard on the subject says they can’t be bothered. Economic pain is what they want to inflict as they slowly unravel. Thanks again
Well done Returnee. Hopefully those who wish to leave Canada know not only really why they are leaving but also what is in store for them. As I see it they are too emotional about leaving to see the brown grass on the other side of the fence
You’ll be forced to give up your natural resources to the highest bidder to sustain your “independence”. You will lose it all to billionaires, Alberta.
Look closely at what is happening in the U.S. and realize that the rich seek total control to access for life-sustaining resources. That is what this about.
Alberta’s land & resources is what they’re after and if you look at a map it becomes truly terrifying. It is likely, imo, that U.S. judges were flown into billionaire properties like the ones shown in the video below to bribe them into doing the judicial dirty work for the predatory billionaire class. The billionaires don’t care about humans. They are predators. Don’t make your lands and resources vulnerable to private investors or they will take it all from you. Northwestern U.S. states made the same fatal mistakes when trusting their corrupt Republican politicians. Don’t fall for it!
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
True, but opposing capital punishment (and especially two-tiered capital punishment and summary vigilante execution) is hardly soft on crime.
And that just got me thinking further - who even would be considered a citizen of Alberta? Everyone seems to be acting under the assumption that everyone in Alberta, at least those who are Canadian citizens, would just become automatic Albertans. That is far from the case! Citizenship itself would have to be negotiated as part of the separation process. Even if everyone who is a Canadian citizen currently was offered Albertan citizenship, that still leaves permanent residents, temporary workers, refugees, asylum seekers, and non-Canadians on specific work visas in limbo. Would they be allowed to stay and continue working toward Albertan citizenship (or continue on new visas)? Would they have to start the process over? Would they be forced (or "strongly encouraged") to relocate to Canada and, if so, would they be able to continue the process toward citizenship or start over from a "new country"? Would Alberta be considered a safe third country? Would former residents of Alberta be able to claim Albertan citizenship? Going back to the inmate example, would prisoners be considered Albertans simply because they were convicted in Alberta, regardless of residence or place of birth? Would students at Albertan post-secondary institutions be entitled to Albertan citizenship? Would Indigenous peoples be considered non-citizens if they refuse to give up their treaty rights? Would federal employees only be able to get citizenship if they gave up their jobs?
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
The critical question for Albertans to ask themselves is why? Why do they think having oilfields will make them rich. Those oil prices are set by the world. Not by the place it comes from. If they separate they are going to have to negotiate all over again and as Dean pointed out they don’t have the infrastructure. They will end up like Venezuela’s resource, belonging to the States and they won’t reap any benefits. Little dick aka trump will be like all fly by night carnival barkers, promise them the moon and leave them high and dry. I almost, just almost wish they could learn their lesson. Except for the native population and some of the immigrate peoples that don’t deserve it.
An absolutely brilliant synopsis of the state of affairs. I think most Albertans don’t think that far ahead. Or don’t think at all! Brexit over here had the same issues but the “leave” campaign didn’t tell those facts to people and now they are paying for not thinking ahead. I lived in Alberta for 7 years and found the population to be quite ignorant of the world at large. I believe that’s why the MAGA movement was able to move in on them. Of course they aren’t all like that but the majority are. Why do you think they call it the “Bible Belt?” They think that all their problems will be solved if they just “believe” and that the USA will take them over and their lives will be better. Racism is behind many of those thoughts. America says they want them because little dick aka trump is taking his orders from Putin. Russia needs Alberta to separate so that they have a land route into the States from Alaska! That’s why they are interested in Alberta separating. Think on. You could go from the frying pan into the fire!
I keep saying they're welcome to move to Arkansas if they love it so much. Unlike Alabama, Alaska, or Arizona - the other A states - it's pretty much uneducated white trash and they'll fit right in.
It's odd to me how the treaty land has been largely ignored in broader conversations and reporting about this. I just look at the whole mess and think, "not going to happen."
Thank you for this was very insightful and more Albertans need to read this
Thanks and hope so
If you lost any followers because of this post then you gained with me the others don't have any critical thinking
Thanks given toxic positivity won't make these issues go away
Agree these issues will not go away what is concerning right now is that with all this talk about separation the media sure is not talking about the data breach which is a big issue
Seems like Russians and Americans are making it worse by design
Agree
I've just sent the piece to an Albertan friend with the suggestion she get in touch with a reporter/editor at the major paper in Calgary and Edmonton - by phone, if possible - to say “I’m guessing you’ve probably been doing this research yourself, but in case you haven’t it needs a LOT of public exposure because I certainly didn’t know any of this, and I’m guessing most of us Albertans don’t know any of this either!”
She answered me - "Good idea!"
I have a hunch she's going to act on this in some way.
If any of you who have responded have friends/contacts in Alberta (don't leave out the rural communities) pass this piece on. Our comments don't amount to a hill of beans. I suggested reaching out to the newspapers, but the local Alberta radio talk shows, the local TV newsrooms should be interested enough to pick this up.
The important thing is to make this information go viral.
I've done my tiny bit. Now do yours!
Yes they should be doing the work instead of letting random bloggers do it without process. They can also self published on a blog if editors kill or undermine them...
Let's see if anybody here does something about actually moving the information... I suppose you'd have no objection if portions of your piece were incorporated into letters to the editor, etc.
My problem is I'm in NS without contact / information about the local media scene in Alberta which is why I sent the piece along to my (clergy) friend in Alberta who does have contacts and a network she's working with.
No given I got my info from other sources as noted on the linked sections
Sorry to pursue this but your answer is ambiguous...
Did you miss a comma after "No" which would mean you do object to people quoting portions of your piece in something they might write themselves? (I'm assuming they'd offer a link back to your original - I do when I quote from a restacked piece). You could have meant "Not given,..." in other words people should chase down the links to build their own responses - most won't bother with that and your intention of getting a wide audience for this information gets lost. Or was your reply just a fast one, meaning: No, you're OK with quotes from the piece being used?
Crazy how a missing or misplaced comma, or missing letter can effect the meaning of a bit of text...
No comma
That's unambiguous - it's the first option I listed. Thanks for clarifying your intent.
Well done, CR! People (Albertans) don't really want to think about any of this, they just want to be told a nice story of how things will be and then let happen what happens, assuming it will be like the fairy tales they were told; more freedom, more money, more blah blah blah. And when did stories like that told by politicians EVER come true?!!
The lack of education or the assumption the USA will take them like Russia took Crimea are plausible reasons for the gap in knowledge
Thank you CR for providing this information. An excellent well rounded discussion of what the nuts and bolts of the situation will or can evolve into and how we are all going to feel its effects. Although not exhaustive I believe you’ve hit all the major points. It’s important that people understand the implications of wanting to take a vote on the possibility of separating from the rest of Canada. What was clear in my mind having gone through two referendums that the issues are complicated, the entanglements overwhelming and most people (I include myself) can’t or won’t absorb the details. It’s either not in our DNA or we can’t handle all the information at once but it’s nonetheless vital that the hard questions be asked and real answers be provided. And it’s what the proponents of the separation challenge hope for. Too many ideas. Too many numbers. People will cling to sound bites and tag lines rather than diving into the details. So content such as this becomes vital and thought provoking. Let’s learn from history. What happened to Britain? Was Brexit a good idea after all? The problem today is that people don’t know who or what to trust. The uncertainty is unnerving so people avoid until the last minute. Nefarious actors complicate the agenda. Everyone is selling something and no one is sure of what they are getting. Norms and standards are being dissolved and people feel trapped within an information bubble that may not serve them well. So let’s not go down the path of not knowing the facts. Forget about partisanship. Think costs. Everyday implications as outlined here and get the facts. Dialogue is as important as understanding the issues and grievances. Final word is that First Nations Treaties are paramount in this conversation and cannot and must not be minimized in any way. Let’s keep talking to understand each other. What is clear from this reading is that Alberta is stronger within a united Canada and Canada is a greater nation with all its provinces and territories working together !!
The issue won't be easy unless the US is using this as a cheap excuse to invade Canada
Doubtful but sure anything is possible. Everything I’ve read or heard on the subject says they can’t be bothered. Economic pain is what they want to inflict as they slowly unravel. Thanks again
Well done Returnee. Hopefully those who wish to leave Canada know not only really why they are leaving but also what is in store for them. As I see it they are too emotional about leaving to see the brown grass on the other side of the fence
Hopefully is the word for this entire debacle
Well done. Such a thorough explanation of a very important topic. Thank you for your work💜
Thanks again for reading and sharing
Thank you. Very interesting.
You’ll be forced to give up your natural resources to the highest bidder to sustain your “independence”. You will lose it all to billionaires, Alberta.
Look closely at what is happening in the U.S. and realize that the rich seek total control to access for life-sustaining resources. That is what this about.
Alberta’s land & resources is what they’re after and if you look at a map it becomes truly terrifying. It is likely, imo, that U.S. judges were flown into billionaire properties like the ones shown in the video below to bribe them into doing the judicial dirty work for the predatory billionaire class. The billionaires don’t care about humans. They are predators. Don’t make your lands and resources vulnerable to private investors or they will take it all from you. Northwestern U.S. states made the same fatal mistakes when trusting their corrupt Republican politicians. Don’t fall for it!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NmRACRJ8EtQ&t=99s&pp=2AFjkAIB0gcJCUACo7VqN5tD&ra=m
US territories have no say how the feds treat them. Alberta isn't getting statehood anytime soon
Republikkkans will never voluntarily add a state.
Not at all
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
Yes and that could be a mess given how soft on crime Canada is
True, but opposing capital punishment (and especially two-tiered capital punishment and summary vigilante execution) is hardly soft on crime.
And that just got me thinking further - who even would be considered a citizen of Alberta? Everyone seems to be acting under the assumption that everyone in Alberta, at least those who are Canadian citizens, would just become automatic Albertans. That is far from the case! Citizenship itself would have to be negotiated as part of the separation process. Even if everyone who is a Canadian citizen currently was offered Albertan citizenship, that still leaves permanent residents, temporary workers, refugees, asylum seekers, and non-Canadians on specific work visas in limbo. Would they be allowed to stay and continue working toward Albertan citizenship (or continue on new visas)? Would they have to start the process over? Would they be forced (or "strongly encouraged") to relocate to Canada and, if so, would they be able to continue the process toward citizenship or start over from a "new country"? Would Alberta be considered a safe third country? Would former residents of Alberta be able to claim Albertan citizenship? Going back to the inmate example, would prisoners be considered Albertans simply because they were convicted in Alberta, regardless of residence or place of birth? Would students at Albertan post-secondary institutions be entitled to Albertan citizenship? Would Indigenous peoples be considered non-citizens if they refuse to give up their treaty rights? Would federal employees only be able to get citizenship if they gave up their jobs?
Canada has lax bail before it was fixed under Carney
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
Your question about inmates in Alberta penitentiaries made me think of the opposite - Albertan inmates in federal penitentiaries. Canada would be under no obligation to keep housing them. They could keep doing so and bill Alberta for the expense, or they could release and deport the prisoners back to Alberta, leaving a bunch of potentially very dangerous people free. Alberta would have to set up its own prison system (which I have the feeling would be mostly capital punishment if the separatists have their way - at least, capital punishment for anyone who isn't white) and maybe they could do a prisoner swap with Canada.
Also, a good number of the people who have federal jobs would likely try to emigrate elsewhere in Canada, especially if they weren't born in Alberta, so the new government would lose a huge pool of knowledge, wealth, and talent. That's what happened in the US 250 years ago, and Alberta is drawing from a smaller population overall.
The critical question for Albertans to ask themselves is why? Why do they think having oilfields will make them rich. Those oil prices are set by the world. Not by the place it comes from. If they separate they are going to have to negotiate all over again and as Dean pointed out they don’t have the infrastructure. They will end up like Venezuela’s resource, belonging to the States and they won’t reap any benefits. Little dick aka trump will be like all fly by night carnival barkers, promise them the moon and leave them high and dry. I almost, just almost wish they could learn their lesson. Except for the native population and some of the immigrate peoples that don’t deserve it.
They think America will prop them up
An absolutely brilliant synopsis of the state of affairs. I think most Albertans don’t think that far ahead. Or don’t think at all! Brexit over here had the same issues but the “leave” campaign didn’t tell those facts to people and now they are paying for not thinking ahead. I lived in Alberta for 7 years and found the population to be quite ignorant of the world at large. I believe that’s why the MAGA movement was able to move in on them. Of course they aren’t all like that but the majority are. Why do you think they call it the “Bible Belt?” They think that all their problems will be solved if they just “believe” and that the USA will take them over and their lives will be better. Racism is behind many of those thoughts. America says they want them because little dick aka trump is taking his orders from Putin. Russia needs Alberta to separate so that they have a land route into the States from Alaska! That’s why they are interested in Alberta separating. Think on. You could go from the frying pan into the fire!
Canadian small mindedness seems worst in Alberta
Because it is!
Explains why they're mostly wannabe Americans
I keep saying they're welcome to move to Arkansas if they love it so much. Unlike Alabama, Alaska, or Arizona - the other A states - it's pretty much uneducated white trash and they'll fit right in.
Yes they should
Now that’s telling it like it is! (‘-‘)
It's odd to me how the treaty land has been largely ignored in broader conversations and reporting about this. I just look at the whole mess and think, "not going to happen."
Because of racism. Also I lost subscribers for this post
You just gained one here, and hopefully more will balance that out.
thanks for subscribing
My pleasure.