Canadians warn: fleeing U.S. turmoil isn't enough. If you're coming north, leave American exceptionalism behind or risk bringing the collapse with you.
Really had to take a hard look at this, before hitting a single "Like" on this thread, which is my habit. Which I will, once this comment is finished, and get back and re-read the comments, time and life permitting.
Wow. This is a difficult but necessary discussion. Where to begin? Well, for starters, I've had more contact with Canadians here on Substack in the past 5 months than I've had, in any way, shape, or form, during the past five decades. I lived there, as I've shared on numerous other Canadian threads here, from late 1968 until late 1973, from ages 10 to 15. First four years in Halifax, one year in the English speaking part of Quebec (also known as the Eastern Townships). I'm a fast learner when it comes to group and cultural dynamics, the result of so many moves at such a young age.
I also have the memory of an elephant, and I hear the voice of Canada and Canadians loud and clear. Had some more "just in case" discussions with my wife today...but don't worry. I'm not fleeing, I'm staying and fighting the SOB, but I do think it makes sense to prepare...which I can see nearly everybody in this discussion doing.
Just one more quick family story. My older brother was draft age during Vietnam, and he moved with us to Nova Scotia. Not to dodge, and not longterm, but to help my parents, the younger of my two older sisters and I, to move. He eventually got conscientious object-oriented status - a controversial thing, which I have shared with very, very few people, even my closest friends. My parents, also eventually, got pensions (or Social Security) from both countries.
And me? I've spent nearly 67 years carving out my identity, a legal records analyst for almost 30 years now, and currently consider myself an ally (which in my view is often more valuable than a friend) of Canada. I'd like to be considered the same, but I understand that trust takea time, is a fragile think. I'm a sharer, sometimes to a fault. There's a lot more where that came from. Take it for what it's worth; I will certainly return the favor.
Just an old hippy here and I was offered sanctuary while on a visit during the Viet Nam war. I appreciated the offer and even though 6 of my grandparents were from Canada I chose to stay and protest. I understand Canada and appreciate having such a stable, reliable nation on our border. I am again staying here now, although I would rather see parts of the US become Provinces of Canada than Canada become part of the US. I believe in the future we will again be close partners, facing the difficulties of the world together. Yes, we are different, but similar also and we both love our freedom.
NATIONALLY : Specifically, Southern Californian. Never been 100% in agreement with the past indulgences in US fascism and certainly not this one.
It’s getting dangerous to be anti fascist anywhere these days. The US ?,
will more than likely be splitting up and eventually become 4-5 separate nations. My family is making plans to flee: but our direction is SOUTH :
To Mexico and Costa Rica 🇨🇷.
I admire and adore your country. I’ve many friends and family there who are now battening up the hatches and preparing for some difficult choices; about who they can help escape and those they cannot. It’s a very uncomfortable position for any compassionate person to be in now.
The recent finish on Hulu Streaming of Margaret Atwood’s (one of your National Treasures), “The Handmaid’s Tale” is a stark warning about the grip of authoritarianism and its ability to grow unchecked. I know you’ve got some very concerning political issues these days as well. It’s more than a little rattling to think of the dictatorial bent of some Party’s , Provinces and MPs now. Please be careful. Do protect your kith and kin and all of my wonderful Canucks up there!
The kind of people that would be fleeing the US to Canada are actually most likely people who would fit in politically and culturally in Canada than they do here.
That’s not to say that there wouldn’t be *some* culture shock, but most of us who would take such a step are the ones longing for America to be more like Canada in the first place. ie more liberal, accepting of diversity, collectivist. MAGA would never go there. They’ve been the ones railing about your “socialist” healthcare for decades.
First, and Foremost…Leave the Second Amendment in the shredder. Almost as Important Is…Ditch the Whole American Healthcare Model. Stomp all over That. We don’t need wholesale Capitalist Murder.
Third…American Exceptionality is A Crock. Nobody but the Brainwashed…Buy That.
I would add to this excellent piece, that foremost, American immigrants must leave God and their American ideas about religion behind in the USA. Religion is a private matter in Canada, just like abortion is a private matter between a doctor and their patients. They must be willing to be quiet as nobody wants to hear their opinions,
Albertans and others in Western Canada are second class citizens already in Canada; they will set themselves free and quit getting the squeeze from eastern liberals.
Another excellent article - politely provocative to both experience and critical thinking. I'm also enjoying the discourse in these comments. It broadens the topic. Thanks.
I made some posts paid comments due to bad faith discussions from people commenting without reading anything from the articles. I’ll keep this open as long as it stays this way depending on the topic.
Boy this chat trail really dove into a rabbit hole.
You have nicely structured something I have been thinking about, framing the issues much more politely than I have. On another site ofa freshUS immigrant poached for her health sector expertise (and also wanting to escape), I bluntly asked “Are you here to contribute or to be an exile obsessing about the troubles to the south”. Not very elegant.
The first wave of health professions will have an easier experience as we actively entice badly needed talent. They slide fairly easily into health care institutions. Others may have a challenge as they bump into the embrace of the immigration system and it needs to be smart about absorption capacity.
You mentioned the war Resistors and their integration into Canadian society. There have been many others: United Empire Loyalists; entrepreneurs like Philemon Wright in the Ottawa Valley; former slaves from French and British occupation, refuges from the US.
We know from years of experience that the immigrant transit takes time and we see that members of immigrate communities remain transfixed on political dynamics in their country of origin, sometimes over generations. Americans are no different.
I think we should be patient and supportive of the transition American immigrants are facing and also avoid getting sucked into angst about the state of America. Our conversations need to concentrate on a conscious uncoupling of our relationship with the US as Carney suggests. Our efforts should focus developing and transforming our country to craft a new place for ourselves in the world. New comers and immigrants are welcome to join Canadians on the ride.
Apart from everything you wrote here which I do agree with, I think it also needs to be added that even just getting Landed Immigrant status (ie, Canada’s ‘Green Card’) is an exceptionally long, byzantine, and intrusive process if you’re attempting to immigrate as… well, someone who just wants to be Canadian.
You’ll have the most success if you’re a health care professional or skilled tradesperson. Accountant? Engineer? Writing code? We have enough of those, thanks. Also, you’ll find Canada has a “closed shop” mentality when it comes to some sectors. Screenwriters and film technicians who moved from LA to Vancouver will tell you how they couldn’t get a break because they were literally shut out by the local industry. In Toronto, good luck finding work even as a Canadian if you don’t know someone on the inside who can say “hey, I know a guy…”
And having watched two friends (one American, one British) try it, things get worse if you try to marry your way into citizenship. The Canadian government will ask you the most personal questions imaginable and even demand you produce all of your romantic correspondence to prove you’re genuinely in love. These two friends were left profoundly embittered by the experience.
And speaking of embittered, once you get a place in line, expect to be bumped back down the list continually, as other people with better qualifications are added to the waiting list ahead of you.
The final bit of surreality I have to tell you about is that the final stage in all of this, almost adding injury to insult, is that the last thing the government will do is issue you a document which then needs to be stamped by Canadian border services as you enter Canada one last time. So - you’ll have to go back to the US and then line up to get into Canada one last time. And with the attitude of US CBP lately, I’m sure this has the potential to go sideways. 😬
Leaving and resettling is a complex issue that should always generate more empathy, not less. Unfortunately, the reality is completely different. As we see very very very clearly right now.
We should welcome those that share similar values Canadians have or take for granted. That said the country needs to have the means to do and take care of their own locals as well.
"objector-oriented" status my foot, spell-check! *#$%^@
See this is one more side effect of over-sharing in the digital age! Aaargh!
Really had to take a hard look at this, before hitting a single "Like" on this thread, which is my habit. Which I will, once this comment is finished, and get back and re-read the comments, time and life permitting.
Wow. This is a difficult but necessary discussion. Where to begin? Well, for starters, I've had more contact with Canadians here on Substack in the past 5 months than I've had, in any way, shape, or form, during the past five decades. I lived there, as I've shared on numerous other Canadian threads here, from late 1968 until late 1973, from ages 10 to 15. First four years in Halifax, one year in the English speaking part of Quebec (also known as the Eastern Townships). I'm a fast learner when it comes to group and cultural dynamics, the result of so many moves at such a young age.
I also have the memory of an elephant, and I hear the voice of Canada and Canadians loud and clear. Had some more "just in case" discussions with my wife today...but don't worry. I'm not fleeing, I'm staying and fighting the SOB, but I do think it makes sense to prepare...which I can see nearly everybody in this discussion doing.
Just one more quick family story. My older brother was draft age during Vietnam, and he moved with us to Nova Scotia. Not to dodge, and not longterm, but to help my parents, the younger of my two older sisters and I, to move. He eventually got conscientious object-oriented status - a controversial thing, which I have shared with very, very few people, even my closest friends. My parents, also eventually, got pensions (or Social Security) from both countries.
And me? I've spent nearly 67 years carving out my identity, a legal records analyst for almost 30 years now, and currently consider myself an ally (which in my view is often more valuable than a friend) of Canada. I'd like to be considered the same, but I understand that trust takea time, is a fragile think. I'm a sharer, sometimes to a fault. There's a lot more where that came from. Take it for what it's worth; I will certainly return the favor.
Just an old hippy here and I was offered sanctuary while on a visit during the Viet Nam war. I appreciated the offer and even though 6 of my grandparents were from Canada I chose to stay and protest. I understand Canada and appreciate having such a stable, reliable nation on our border. I am again staying here now, although I would rather see parts of the US become Provinces of Canada than Canada become part of the US. I believe in the future we will again be close partners, facing the difficulties of the world together. Yes, we are different, but similar also and we both love our freedom.
Thank you Cath. Well spoken and very SPOT ON.
This Californian :
And yes THAT is how I identify myself;
culturally , mentally, and politically:
And NOW
NATIONALLY : Specifically, Southern Californian. Never been 100% in agreement with the past indulgences in US fascism and certainly not this one.
It’s getting dangerous to be anti fascist anywhere these days. The US ?,
will more than likely be splitting up and eventually become 4-5 separate nations. My family is making plans to flee: but our direction is SOUTH :
To Mexico and Costa Rica 🇨🇷.
I admire and adore your country. I’ve many friends and family there who are now battening up the hatches and preparing for some difficult choices; about who they can help escape and those they cannot. It’s a very uncomfortable position for any compassionate person to be in now.
The recent finish on Hulu Streaming of Margaret Atwood’s (one of your National Treasures), “The Handmaid’s Tale” is a stark warning about the grip of authoritarianism and its ability to grow unchecked. I know you’ve got some very concerning political issues these days as well. It’s more than a little rattling to think of the dictatorial bent of some Party’s , Provinces and MPs now. Please be careful. Do protect your kith and kin and all of my wonderful Canucks up there!
We love our immigrants ❤️. They are vital to future of our country.
Very well said
Thank you. This may be harsh for some people but it really needed to be written.
The kind of people that would be fleeing the US to Canada are actually most likely people who would fit in politically and culturally in Canada than they do here.
That’s not to say that there wouldn’t be *some* culture shock, but most of us who would take such a step are the ones longing for America to be more like Canada in the first place. ie more liberal, accepting of diversity, collectivist. MAGA would never go there. They’ve been the ones railing about your “socialist” healthcare for decades.
Ironically enough Albertans want to go South or be annexed as second class US nationals
I have heard Alberta is like the Texas of Canada 😂
First, and Foremost…Leave the Second Amendment in the shredder. Almost as Important Is…Ditch the Whole American Healthcare Model. Stomp all over That. We don’t need wholesale Capitalist Murder.
Third…American Exceptionality is A Crock. Nobody but the Brainwashed…Buy That.
Add this one…There IS NO Gulf of America.
Admit that DJT is a NAZI Turd.💩
Remember, that here WE USE METRIC.
The BEER Here IS BETTER.
…So too is the Football.
I would add to this excellent piece, that foremost, American immigrants must leave God and their American ideas about religion behind in the USA. Religion is a private matter in Canada, just like abortion is a private matter between a doctor and their patients. They must be willing to be quiet as nobody wants to hear their opinions,
Interesting, we are considering an Underground Railroad for Albertons lol
You mean a reverse underground railroad where Albertans go to Red states in the USA?
Yes, I should have been more clear. Anyway, Alberta is likely to secede and won't need to use it.
You're welcome to become a US territory and be second class citizens.
Albertans and others in Western Canada are second class citizens already in Canada; they will set themselves free and quit getting the squeeze from eastern liberals.
So you want to be second class American nationals. You're more than welcome to leave
Another excellent article - politely provocative to both experience and critical thinking. I'm also enjoying the discourse in these comments. It broadens the topic. Thanks.
I made some posts paid comments due to bad faith discussions from people commenting without reading anything from the articles. I’ll keep this open as long as it stays this way depending on the topic.
Indeed ... I've seen a bit of 'Bot' invasion on Substack, unfortunately.
Boy this chat trail really dove into a rabbit hole.
You have nicely structured something I have been thinking about, framing the issues much more politely than I have. On another site ofa freshUS immigrant poached for her health sector expertise (and also wanting to escape), I bluntly asked “Are you here to contribute or to be an exile obsessing about the troubles to the south”. Not very elegant.
The first wave of health professions will have an easier experience as we actively entice badly needed talent. They slide fairly easily into health care institutions. Others may have a challenge as they bump into the embrace of the immigration system and it needs to be smart about absorption capacity.
You mentioned the war Resistors and their integration into Canadian society. There have been many others: United Empire Loyalists; entrepreneurs like Philemon Wright in the Ottawa Valley; former slaves from French and British occupation, refuges from the US.
We know from years of experience that the immigrant transit takes time and we see that members of immigrate communities remain transfixed on political dynamics in their country of origin, sometimes over generations. Americans are no different.
I think we should be patient and supportive of the transition American immigrants are facing and also avoid getting sucked into angst about the state of America. Our conversations need to concentrate on a conscious uncoupling of our relationship with the US as Carney suggests. Our efforts should focus developing and transforming our country to craft a new place for ourselves in the world. New comers and immigrants are welcome to join Canadians on the ride.
Apart from everything you wrote here which I do agree with, I think it also needs to be added that even just getting Landed Immigrant status (ie, Canada’s ‘Green Card’) is an exceptionally long, byzantine, and intrusive process if you’re attempting to immigrate as… well, someone who just wants to be Canadian.
You’ll have the most success if you’re a health care professional or skilled tradesperson. Accountant? Engineer? Writing code? We have enough of those, thanks. Also, you’ll find Canada has a “closed shop” mentality when it comes to some sectors. Screenwriters and film technicians who moved from LA to Vancouver will tell you how they couldn’t get a break because they were literally shut out by the local industry. In Toronto, good luck finding work even as a Canadian if you don’t know someone on the inside who can say “hey, I know a guy…”
And having watched two friends (one American, one British) try it, things get worse if you try to marry your way into citizenship. The Canadian government will ask you the most personal questions imaginable and even demand you produce all of your romantic correspondence to prove you’re genuinely in love. These two friends were left profoundly embittered by the experience.
And speaking of embittered, once you get a place in line, expect to be bumped back down the list continually, as other people with better qualifications are added to the waiting list ahead of you.
The final bit of surreality I have to tell you about is that the final stage in all of this, almost adding injury to insult, is that the last thing the government will do is issue you a document which then needs to be stamped by Canadian border services as you enter Canada one last time. So - you’ll have to go back to the US and then line up to get into Canada one last time. And with the attitude of US CBP lately, I’m sure this has the potential to go sideways. 😬
Leaving and resettling is a complex issue that should always generate more empathy, not less. Unfortunately, the reality is completely different. As we see very very very clearly right now.
We should welcome those that share similar values Canadians have or take for granted. That said the country needs to have the means to do and take care of their own locals as well.
Absolutement
Thank you for this opening in a very important debate. Let’s find solutions together